Erenlai - Benoit Vermander (魏明德)
Benoit Vermander (魏明德)

Benoit Vermander (魏明德)

Benoit Vermander lives in Shanghai. He teaches philosophy and religious anthropology at the University of Fudan.

Friday, 22 June 2012 00:00

Celebrating 450 years of Xu Guangqi

Interview first published in Xuhui News (Vol.2, N.9, April 2012), by Guan Xin

What does it mean to commemorate the 450th anniversary of the birth of Xu Guangqi? What values should it lead us to promote?

Xu Guangqi was a man of extraordinary stature: a statesman thoroughly familiar with the Chinese philosophical and cultural tradition; a man of practical abilities fascinated by technical and scientific progress; an agriculturist who embarked on this field out of philanthropic concerns; a patriot endowed with military skills… but he was also someone who, in the person of Matteo Ricci and other Jesuit missionaries, discovered Otherness. He was able to challenge himself, to enter into a new understanding of existence, while remaining deeply faithful to the best of his culture and his personality. From the start, he realized a synthesis between different traditions and worldviews. So, when we commemorate his life, we are reminded that a healthy sense of identity goes with a strong capacity to understand and empathize with the other, to put oneself into question, and to creatively invent news ways of thinking and acting.

What has been the contribution of Xu Guangqi in the field of religion?

He is traditionally called “one the three great pillars of the Chinese Catholic Church”, together with the scholars Yang Tingyun and Li Zizhao. These scholars embraced the new faith and were actively promoting the participation of the Western missionaries in fields such as the reform of the Imperial calendar. At the same time, they were deeply anchored into the Confucian tradition, which they wanted to reform and purify, and they found in Catholicism the completion of what they thought was the original moral and theistic Confucian original worldview. Though their relationship with Buddhism was an uneasy and complex one, one can also find elements of Buddhist philosophy in their formation. In that sense, their contribution is also interreligious: in their written works they were offering a new expression of the Chinese religious psyche. Suring the last decade, these works have been republished, and they are object of intense interest for scholars. The complete works of Xu Guangqi have just been published in Shanghai.

The friendship and cooperation between Xu Guangqi and Matteo Ricci was great and profound. We are now facing a “smaller” planet due to globalization and intense cross culture communication. Doe their ideal and the model they offer keep some significance for us today?

When Xu Guangqi and Ricci were alive, communication among civilizations was minimal. Now, we have sometimes “too much’ of it, in the sense that clichés, superficial communication and conflicts of interests are often perverting our exchanges. Still, Ricci and Xu Guangqi remind us that in-depth communication is always to be grounded into patience, friendship and humility. Patience: it takes time to truly enter into a language and a new system of thought and perception, as there are no shortcuts for being truly “conversant’ with the other; Friendship; empathy and curiosity are the virtues that makes communication among human beings valuable and creative; humility: being able to critically evaluate one’s culture and personality is indispensable for a grateful appreciation of what the cultures and people we encounter may offer to us. In this respect, one can almost say that Xu Guangqi and Matteo Ricci are still the two pillars on which to build a positive model of globalization!


Photo by Roberto Ribeiro. Xu Guangqi Park, Shanghai.
Bronze statue of Matteo Ricci and Paul Xu Guangxi.
Together, Ricci and Paul Xu Guangxi translated and published some essential works of western science.

 

Friday, 29 June 2012 00:00

Beyond the digital trash bin

There are as many ways to take a photograph as to look at the world. Some pictures show an empathy with the subject, some others create a sense of distance or even repulsion. Some are bathed with light and tenderness, and some with anger or despair. Some concentrate on everyday life, with a sense of patience, a kind of meditative undertone, while others try to capture the spark of the moment, the transformative event that changes the mood of a crowd or the look on a face. Some impact a meaning on the world and on human life, and others speak of meaningless wanderings Some pictures seem to be the product of a leisurely walk, and some of a feverish quest into both the city’s and one’s own soul…

I am teaching a course of religious anthropology, and have found that initiating students to “visual anthropology” was one of the best possible ways to make them enter the subject matter. I show them documentaries and photographs, and they slowly become conscious of the fact that the best and most informative documents are not the ones that try to objectively record data but rather those that testify to the engagement of the director of photographer with the people he meets with. A sense of risk, of bewilderment, the account of how one’s own perspective has changed, the courage to position oneself within the environment one explores are the qualities we look for: at its best, visual anthropology gives us an unparalleled account of the way people live and express their beliefs, engage into rituals, how they understand and shape the world they dwell in.

Photographs are rich with information, but not only with information. They are relational objects: they express how we engage or did not engage into a relation with the object of our interest, how our exchanges created the opportunity through which a rich and striking photograph could be taken, how we become part of the scene we document (landscape, ritual or street scene), how frontiers have been blurred till the point that we do not know whether we shot the picture or were shot into the heart by what we saw and experienced.

It is a pity that the act of photographing has been trivialized to the extreme. Pictures are taken all the time with cell phones and other devices – pictures of ourselves mostly -, we look at themselves a few seconds before forgetting them forever, and putting them into a digital trash bin. When it comes to me, I like to sense the weight of a real camera resting on my shoulder, and to make this weigh the symbol of what it costs to take real photograph, photographs in which I have engaged my powers to relate, to feel and to create. At the end of the day, there always will be the pictures meant to go into the trash bin from the moment they were taken and the ones that will speak for a very long time of the tears and the laughs that together compose what can really be called “the salt of life.”

 

 

Thursday, 31 May 2012 21:40

美麗與崇高

「美麗」與人性有深切的關係;「崇高」要我們面對的是超越人性與人性背面的事,包括我們源自的動物,以及我們渴望成為的神聖。

人類是美學的動物。當人物、生物、物件、思想、演出、音樂與風景能激發想像力、回憶與所有感官的時候,人類會抱持著思索與欣賞的興致,並且從中獲得歡愉。他會把這樣的欣賞化為內在生活的驅動力,同時透過美學能力的操練,使得內在生活更具深刻意義。欣賞美,投注時間在美的沉思上並進而改變自我,也能讓人獲得靈性養分與洞察力。

美可以改變人類,這一點早已深受肯定,長久以來在各個文化裡也以多種形式備受稱頌;可是,美並不會憑空產生,而是需要將時間投注在沉默與專注中,才可能獲得。因此,美是種脆弱的力量;欣賞美的能力應該一代接一代受到培養。我們也必須有這樣的認知:美不只是久遠的古老事物,有些美的形式更會以我們身處的時代與環境為根據,直接訴諸感官與理解力。

可是,到底什麼是「美」?希臘哲學家與其後的眾多思想家,通常會把兩種美學情緒區分開來,可粗略地分為「美麗」與「崇高」。「美麗」指的是,我們對引起共鳴的事物加以掌握與理解,因此激發出美學上的歡愉感。我們欣賞一首樂曲的美,是因為我們瞭解它的編曲技巧有多麼高超,而且能夠拿它跟其他作品進行比較。呈現在眼前供人欣賞的畫作、珠寶或花瓶,我們會讚賞其中的技藝。在西方文化下,人們會以某種美學標準(例如浪漫派、現代派、古典派等等)為依據,讚美愛戀對象的臉龐;而人們是透過教育與旅遊才得以認識這些標準。這就是為什麼面對陌生文化的藝術作品,我們有時會很難欣賞或引起共鳴。

崇高則是種情緒,能喚醒這種情緒的有:(一)神祕感;(二)頓悟自己無法徹底掌握或理解某種特定思想、某藝術作品與風景為何會如此存在。崇高的情緒,並非來自於認出美學典律所獲得的快感(美學典律是透過學習來加以掌握和欣賞的),而是來自我們所思索的物品在感官上留下的強烈印象。「崇高」與震撼有關,有時也跟恐怖、生死掙扎、在我們內在與周圍運作的原始力量有關。「美麗」與人性有深切的關係,但「崇高」要我們面對的是超越人性與人性背面的事,包括我們源自的動物,以及我們渴望成為的神聖。

美學情緒的光譜有各種不同階層,據此構成了我們的人性:追求理性,也追求超越理性與理性背面的東西;人類以受託主宰大自然的任務為榮;我們既是大自然的殖民者又受其哺育,這事實雖然強大,但我們來說卻是一種無意識的記憶,我們因而渴望神的境界,是神創造我們成為今日的模樣,並召喚我們超越自我的界限。

撰文∣魏明德 翻譯∣謝靜雯 繪圖∣笨篤

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六月─行古道‧尋自然

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Tuesday, 01 May 2012 18:02

沒有徐光啟,就沒有利瑪竇;沒有利瑪竇,就沒有徐光啟

徐光啟與利瑪竇的交流讓我們學習了寶貴的一課:文化需要恆久地灌溉,不同文化的相遇雖存在風險,但唯有真誠的交流才能為自身文化增添新穎而豐盛的面貌。

長久以來,對西方人來說,利瑪竇(Matteo Ricci)的名聲比徐光啟響亮:西方人士易於知曉同樣來自西方世界利瑪竇的旅程與歷險,卻鮮少聽聞來自中國世界徐光啟的人物與經歷,後者是義大利兼具傳教士身分與博學者雋譽利瑪竇的摯友。然而,近二十年來,西方漢學家重新發現十六世紀末及十七世紀初掀起波瀾壯闊智識運動中的一位重要行動者──徐光啟:在那個年代的歷史洪流中,士者多次透過新的眼光重新詮釋中國的儒學傳統,並開創綜論,企圖迎接該年代的挑戰。

徐光啟與利瑪竇兩人皆如百科全書般知識廣博,對萬事萬物皆感到無比好奇:科學、科技、形上學、神學、治國之術、人道文化……兩個人都試圖探鑿人類本性的深度,以及蘊藏在人類心中的奧祕。他們同樣因為冀望幫助鄰人而處處憂心,並設想樹立更為正義及理性的秩序。他們信任人類的理性,並且認為現代科學賦予人類新的工具。就今日的眼光來看,他們抱持樂觀主義的理念似乎帶著些許天真,但其中寓含雄渾的價值:相信對方;透過與異於己身的鄰人締結的友誼,對於異於己身的文化資源抱持研究興趣;不時進行「翻譯」的工程,使得對方的資源轉為自身文明遺產的一部分……這樣的行動計畫值得我們投注一輩子的生命。

徐光啟投身交流的冒險之旅,他是一位敢於知識冒險的勇者、一位具有高尚性格的智者、一位慷慨無邊的仁者。徐光啟與利瑪竇及其他外國傳教士的相遇,使得他全然轉化,他改變自身的宗教信仰與世界觀。但同時,他深刻探索自身的文化遺產,同時給予新的解讀,如此重新認識與領悟構築新的光芒,使得他愈發覺得自身文化遺產的優美。

今日,文化交流的條件迥然不同:徐光啟與利瑪竇居處的年代可謂是交流甚為「稀有」的時代,人們對於他方文明的種種事物毫無所悉。今日我們居處在一個信息過於「飽和」的年代,我們自以為知曉他方的社會與文化,走捷徑者在所多有,而誤會也層出不窮。在這兩種情狀中,徐光啟與利瑪竇兩人的交流賜予我們珍貴的一課:人與人之間或是不同的文化之間的相遇存在著風險。它撼動我個人自以為是的信念,動搖我個人的認同,它逼迫我必須付出與接納,它使得我重新做出定位,邁向新的路徑。但是唯有這樣的交流才能為自身的文化增添新穎而豐盛的面貌。閉關自守的文化會邁向死亡。文化需要活水恆久地灌溉。

因此,慶賀徐光啟450周年誕辰不應僅限於中國社會,它應該值得普世同歡。西方人士發現徐光啟兼具人文主義者與博學者的關懷,他懂得如何從兩種不同思想傳統中推出深刻連貫的綜論。西方人士從徐光啟身上得知偉大的愛國主義與開放態度、慷慨精神齊步同行。簡言之,西方人士必須承認從徐光啟身上看見了一個典範,因為他,一個多元文化的世界全然展開,在這樣的世界中經由平等、互信與互重,人們齊聲贊嘆共享的物質資源、精神資源與科學資源。

撰文∣魏明德 翻譯∣沈秀臻

 

 

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五月─ 向天爭一口飯─布袋小鎮的百年追尋

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Tuesday, 03 April 2012 20:58

海洋的感覺

海洋的感覺讓喜悅以某種原初樣貌,在我們的靈魂中升起;它是神賜與我們的,亙古常新的禮物。

Wednesday, 28 March 2012 15:57

The Oceanic Feeling

All marine ecosystems are in constant flux, affected by external influences and short-term disruptions as well as by seasonal cycles. Those who live within an oceanic environment necessarily see the world in a different way from those who dwell in the plains, highlands or mountains. Sudden and unexpected changes foster the representation of distant divine beings whose behavior is unpredictable; the sense of uncertainty generated by the environment encourages flexible strategies, rather than linear thinking. Nowhere is this truer than in the Pacific Ocean, which covers a surface larger than the one occupied by all land areas, and which accounts for eighty percent of the islands of the globe.

In the Pacific world, the ocean is the continent: the sea constitutes the natural environment for all forms of life, it is also the vector of communication... A writer from Tonga, Epeli Hau'ofa (1939-2009) has spoken of a "sea of islands', a sea that unites rather than divides, a sea that is a lived story: for the ocean moves and breathes in those born on its banks like the salt in the sea and the blood within the body. The immense ocean also dwells within the narrow limits of a human body, allowing man to travel into himself in the same way he embarks for finding other islanders.

All this may remind us of what the writer Romain Rolland called, in his correspondence with Freud, the"Oceanic feeling.” Through this expression he was trying to encapsulate a feeling of infinity that goes beyond all structured religious belief. Nowadays, Romain Rolland’s “Oceanic feeling” has become little more than a footnote in the history of religious psychology. Freud was not very appreciative:  "How foreign to me are the worlds in which you move! Mystique is as closed to me as music” he wrote to Rolland – who replied, "I can hardly believe that mysticism and music are foreign to you. I rather think that you are afraid of them, as you wish to keep the instrument of critical reason unblemished.”

Going a step beyond Romain Rolland, one may say that the presence of God in the soul is like the triumphant sound of the waves - and this “like” means two things at once: first, it speaks of the universal nature of spiritual experience; and second, it recognizes the fact that no comparison can account for the way God makes himself present within the depths of man. What the Oceanic feeling helps us understand is that joy arises in our soul always as something nascent. The joy that comes like the light of the day within the darkness of our depths is sung and evoked by the movement of an ocean everlasting and yet nascent, by the rhythm of the waves engraving and erasing their writings on the sand with a finger trembling and yet assured. Eventually, the Oceanic feeling lets us glimpse the mystery of the birth of God within the soul: a gift eternally offered – and always new.

Illustration by Bendu


Friday, 02 March 2012 19:17

在進步與退步之間

「成功」的紋理遠比我們想像的來得豐富和幽微,它是由挫折、失敗和退步的棉線交織而成。

撰文│魏明德  翻譯│楊子頡

我們對「進步」和「退步」的認知有著清楚的分野:例如從學生的成績和名次可以看出學業的進步或退步;由經濟指標可衡量一個國家的成長或衰退;過了一定年紀後,我們的體力和智能也會開始衰退……。因此,我們就像是上下樓梯般地為自己評分,也以此衡量他人、衡量機構和社會。

毫無疑問,成績、指標和測量法是有用的工具,但它們切入現實的方式,有時卻會讓我們看不見欲評估的現象的複雜性。舉例來說,老年時能力的退化可以是圓熟的因子,只要我們能平靜接受自己已進入一個年紀和疾病開始強加於自身的轉型階段。因為將過往經歷和成就與目前能力的限制相互調合,反而能達到另一種前所未及的新境界;在這層意義上,倒退其實是前進。或者,當一國的經濟成長摧毀了社會結構和社群賴以信仰的價值時,往往會帶來文化和人文的衰退。至於學術測驗,則很少能評估學生在智識、道德及情感層面的成長。人生混和著進步與衰退,如同糠殼與麥粒一起在田裡生長一樣,我們最好不要在收成前把他們分開。

進步與退步只在兩者轉換成另一狀態的動態過程中才有意義。一個短期的退步往往觸發長期的進步,這樣的案例常發生在情感與情緒的成長過程中:情感的挫折經常導致一陣子的退轉,心靈封閉了自我和自己的傷痕。但在沉澱之後,挫折便成為瞭解自我與滋養同理心的強大動力。一個忽略挫折且不願經歷退步的人,得承受一個風險,即他/她可能看見成功的可能性,卻仍舊以失敗告終,並活在與真實自我疏離的存在之中。

這代表進步與退步是一樣的嗎?不,畢竟我們還是想要為了成功奮鬥。但「成功」的紋理比我們想像的來得更豐富和幽微,它由我們的挫折、失敗和退步的棉線交織而成,也由個人成就的光影和色調組合而成。當生命看似走下坡時,讓我們得以慰藉的是:我們透過理解真實自我的方式獲得了進步,而最終的勝利在於,經由一連串形塑生命的奮鬥與掙扎,完成了自身的獨特性。

 

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三月 - 青年 創造 台灣新時代

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Friday, 24 February 2012 15:20

Between progress and regression

We have a clear-cut idea of what the words “progress” and “regression” point to: a student’s marks are showing academic progress, or they indicate that he is regressing in his class ranking; economic indexes measure how much a country is growing or if it is entering recession; after a certain age, our physical and intellectual abilities are regressing… And so, we grade ourselves as we move up or down the ladder, and we measure accordingly other people, institutions and societies.

Grades, indexes and measurements are certainly useful tools. Still, they cut into reality in ways that sometimes make us blind to the complexity of the phenomena we try to assess. The very fact that my abilities are regressing can actually be a factor of maturation, of reconciliation with my personal history, my limits and my achievements if I peacefully come to terms with the transformations that age or illness impose on me. A country’s economic growth often goes with cultural and humane regression when it destroys social structure and community values. Academic tests are rarely able to assess the whole process of intellectual, moral and emotional growth that a student is undergoing. Life mixes into a whole progress and regression, as the chaff and the wheat grow together on the field. Better not to try to separate them before the time of the harvest…

Progress and regression only make sense within dynamic processes that change the one into the other - and conversely. A short-time regression often triggers long-term progress. This is the case when it comes to affective and emotional maturation: an affective setback often comes with a period of regression - the mind closes on itself, closes on its wounds. However, when and if subsumed, setbacks become a force for greater self-understanding as well as for nurturing empathy. The one who ignores setbacks and does not experience regressions runs the risk of seeing one’s success end up as one’s ultimate failure, as he has most probably lived an existence estranged from his true self.

Does it mean that progress and regression just equate? No. Ultimately, we are meant to strive for success. But the texture of success is much richer and subtler than we usually imagine. It is interwoven with the threads of our setbacks, failures and regressions, which also serve to compose the shades and nuances of one’s personal achievement. When life seems to be going downhill, let us take solace in the fact that we progress towards the realization of our true self in a way that is uniquely ours – and our ultimate triumph is the uniqueness we achieve throughout the struggles that will have shaped our life.

Illustration by Bendu

 

Friday, 17 February 2012 00:00

China's Challenges in the Year of the Dragon

Benoît Vermander comments on challenges that China needs to face in 2012, the Year of the Dragon.

Tuesday, 31 January 2012 15:28

讀書或工作?——不斷更新的抉擇

翻譯│瞿彥青  繪圖│笨篤

生命不斷提出新挑戰,我們的疑惑也伴隨而生。但無論做出什麼決定、處在哪個位置,我們都需保有對生命的熱情。


該進修深造還是投入職場比較好?這個問題時常困擾著大學畢業生。一方面,他們興奮於剛取得的學歷證書所帶來的各種機會:可以真正成為大人、賺取收入、在實際應用上磨練所學、承擔責任,即使這份責任不見得很大;另一方面,畢業生的確意識到自己所知不足,也許到研究所精進幾年可更有競爭力,而且比起繼續當學生,維持一份工作可能很快就讓人感到無聊或倍感壓力。

Tuesday, 17 January 2012 18:56

Studying or working: a choice always to be renewed

Is it better to further one’s study or to immerse oneself in a job? This question often haunts the new graduate. On the one hand, they are thrilled by the opportunities that their freshly acquired diploma brings with it: entering adulthood, earning an income, testing their skills at something concrete, exercising responsibilities, even if such responsibilities are modest in scope… On the other hand, they realize that they do not know much yet, that they may earn a bigger salary within a few years if they master extra knowledge and become more competent, that holding a job might soon appear to her more boring or stressful than remaining a student…  Deciding between Present and Future, between different kinds of gains and losses, and between different lifestyles is never easy, and can generate a lot of anxiety.

The new graduate may be comforted by a few thoughts:

-  First, this choice is much less final and binding than was the case in the past. Today, there are a variety of bridges that allow one to go from study to work and from work to throughout one’s professional path. Therefore, it is practical and beneficial to keep one’s intellectual curiosity always intact, and to remain ready to sacrifice one’s immediate interest at some point in order to re-enter the path of study and research.

- Work can reactivate one’s thirst for knowledge and investigation. Often, students lose interest in knowledge and research because of the way they were taught in high school or in university. Their drive towards practical and intellectual knowledge is reactivated through the problems and challenges they meet in real life: the very fact of being surrounded by technical wonders, complex social mechanisms, injustices and moral dilemmas makes one formulate anew questions that have been agitating the human mind since it undertook to both understand and master the world (while doing so through very diverse knowledge systems…).

-  New graduates may also be somehow comforted by the fact of knowing that finding the balance between study and work is a problem that plagues everyone until very late in life – till the end maybe: “Is it better for me to invest my energies into doing what I know I can do, and thus to be of immediate help to the people I care for and my family – or should I challenge myself to once again embark on the road of professional and intellectual improvement? And should I not chose to study and research just out of gratuitousness, whatever the advantages that come out of it?” Fortunately, the choice is not always so drastic, and professional life may offer time and resources for learning the trade and embarking on a progressive program of study.

So, finally, how is one to decide when confronted with such a choice? Basically, ask yourself how you feel about it. Is there in your heart a strong longing to go ahead on the road towards knowledge and research? Or does the idea of becoming someone active in society and receiving recognition for what you do reveal itself to be the most appealing choice for you right now?  If you can answer this question peacefully and without too much hesitation, just follow the desire of your heart. If not… let the answer formulate itself within your inner self. It will do so naturally, if you can avoid to be too overtly anguished by it. But always remember: when working, protect and nurture the flame of intellectual curiosity. When studying, do not close yourself in an ivory tower, and remain burnt by the desire to share with others what you are researching. And do remain aware that life will often renew the challenge, and will ask you again and again to come up with your own answer…

Illustration by Bendu

Thursday, 29 December 2011 19:46

專注──天賜的禮物

純粹的專注發生在偶然的時刻,引領我們進入深刻的內在,把握最純然完整的自我。

 

繪圖:笨篤

翻譯瞿彥青

在一年的新始,我想為我自己、為認識和喜愛的人們許下什麼願望好呢?也許你會覺得我的願望平凡無奇,因為我只希望我們都能珍惜並培養一種小小的美德,一種時常被忽略的美德──專注。專注什麼?其實並沒有特別專注什麼,只是「單純的專注」。專注於任何可能發生的事,專注在寧靜和音樂中,專注於自身、社會、宇宙正在發生的改變……或者,如果這份專注真的要有一個對象,那就是專注於自我內心深處的生命流動。

在某些特殊的時刻,當夜晚的微風、線香的氣味、或突來的孤獨襲來,會瞬間將我們從忙碌中釋放,我們的社會自我(social self)將不再是我們的中心。我們將冷靜地潛入尚未探索的深處,辨識出平時難以覺察的,許多不同層次的感覺和存在。這也許只在某些特殊的時刻發生,但它其實已經過長期的醞釀──那些曾被難關、傷痛、與平靜註記的時期。許多事就在我們專注的時候發生了,即使我們可能沒有意識到我們正在專注。純粹的專注其實並非來自努力,它主要源自我們進入的一種狀態。生命的深淵在某些時刻會開啟,我們便能穿透內在的石窟,並思量那帶我們進入本源的活水。

讓我們繼續以水來比喻:從岸上觀海,直到海波變成我們靈魂的音樂,也許就會告訴我們該如何進入純粹的專注。當我們臣服於生命之流,從中誕生的和平也和這些波浪奏出相同的樂音。從波浪、沙粒、風的相互作用中,我們體會到最深層和最表層的自我──對我而言,什麼是比表象世界更表面的?什麼又是比我內在的祕密思想更深層的?全都融為「一體」……。

我們很難在日常生活中察覺到這個住在內心的祕密世界,我們往往覺得自己像是鋼筋水泥中的囚犯,只能從一棵寂寞的樹的稀薄枝葉得到心靈上的安慰……。即使如此,「希望」仍幫助我們在專注的美德中成長,引領我們走出庭院裡封閉的高牆。在此,我要為親愛的人籟和E人籟讀者許一個願:在2012年,祝福你們在耐心、希望、與專注的付出上能得到回報,以便體驗宇宙中、人與人之間、你自身靈魂內生命的流動……。

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